I for one am against it. I know the templates are huge, but part of a template is to get a quick look at the character's forms, all of their forms, without needing to click things. It allows for just a better overall view of the forms quickly. And with the books more biographical content will keep the template in the biography section. I know the templates are big, but a tabber is unneeded. And what will be the default view? 1.0 or the newest line? And if its 1.0 people will have to click to see the new form, if the other way they'll have to click to see old forms. It works for Aanchir and I's other project which is doubtless where you got the idea, but not for HF with how different each form is.Lord Nektann
- Swert feels the way you do, but the templates are just too unwieldy. When we have the templates extending past the biography (even with the new information, we can't count on that anymore; Breez had absolutely nothing to do during Breakout, for instance) it creates a problem. It works on BS01, but not everything translates from there properly, and we need to make sure it's relevant and readable.
- I do think we can have improvements made for sure, maybe shrinking in the width and decreasing from such large images and playing with dimensions. I know that this is primarily Aanchir's idea but the thing is that we should wait this out right now. We have three books coming that seem to be featuring all the Brain Attack people, this should give the biography breathing room. I think something needs to be done with templates, but tabbers will take away the point. And it gets into messy territory with Von Nebula and Core Hunter. Click here for Hero, click here for Villain. When these especially in Von Nebula's case are radically different, they should be displayed at the same time. So basically any two-step template runs into the problem of 'do we tab this or not'? etc. And although there are some cases of templates being crazy, look at Furno. He's got the max five switches, and the template doesn't stretch into breakout. And with the books we're going to get more biographical content which will help out. I'd wait until we've got an idea of how 2013 is going to pan out, than we'll revisit this. Lord Nektann
- Shrinking image width? Yeesh, I think it's small enough.
- It was not primarily Aanch's idea, we've been working on tabber for a while (well, I have at any rate; the original idea was actually mine).
- I suppose the Von Ne/bula/ss thing is a point, but then maybe we can make tabs optional. It's not happening YET, but once we can get it to work, it will. Even BIONICLE doesn't have things with five switches, and we don't know how much longer HF will go. We can keep saying "wait until later" or we can actually do something about it. Dorek 15:42, 1 January 2013 (PST)
Something that I mentioned to LN over messenger, that he felt was a good compromise between a Tabber option and a (we'll call it) a Laid-Out option. A Show-Hide type thing for, say, templates with more than 2 images. Default to, say for now, the latest form. You come to the page and all you see is the latest form. You want to see all the forms, so you click a show-button and all the forms are then laid-out to be seen. You get the easy comparison of the Laid-Out form, and the compactness of the Tabber. Or am I just crazy? No, I have no clue how it would be coded. ζω·τωμανα•
- Also doable, but then you get the all or nothing aspect to it. I'll see if there's a way (besides an extra tab) to just display everything, but if pick-and-choose was viable, I hope that I would have seen it.
- We're not randomly picking which image is displayed (Bulbapedia does that sometimes and it's weird). It would always be the most recent form available. Dorek 16:31, 1 January 2013 (PST)
- For the record, part of the reason why I like the idea of tabs versus a "show/hide" system is because a "show/hide" system still requires a ridiculous amount of scrolling to view everything. And furthermore, consider this: if all the forms are arranged vertically, then you're still not likely going to be able to see the earliest and latest forms on the same screen. Now, one way a "show/hide" suystem could work is if the template expanded horizontally to show the forms-- but then we're going to have to change things again when there are more forms than can display horizontally at a comfortable resolution. We'd just be delaying a dramatic restructuring of templates, not preventing it entirely.
- With tabber, you can switch from viewing any one form to viewing any other form in one click, making it easier to make comparisons between whichever forms you please without constantly having to "find yourself" on the page. Want to compare the Breakout and 1.0 forms? That's one click to switch and one to switch back. No tedious back-and-forth scrolling like the current layout requires.--|Talk|Contributions 08:19, 3 January 2013 (PST)
- Okay, I'm responding to Aanch here. Your scrolling argument just simply doesn't hold water for being time-consuming. Why? HF as of now has at max only one image slot over BS01's max of four: the Toa Metru. And you can easily move over, and watch the progression without clicking anything. Now I'm a moderator on the TNW that Meiko showed, and have a different view on tabbers there. Simply, ninjas just aren't Heroes. They only change small things like shirt decals, while Heroes undergo radical changes form to form, evidenced by Breez among others. The forms are so different that we can't relegate them to this tab function. Now there are ways to cut down on our current switch system, such as cutting 'Hero Team' from other forms because that's just not needed. I remain firmly against tabbing. Lord Nektann
@Dorek: The first part would be more or less achievable. It would require some CSS modification and possibly some tweaks in the other code here and there, but it shouldn't be too difficult. The second part however sounds a lot more complicated, and would probably glitch because it would confuse some id elements (most likely), and end up displaying some information under the wrong tab. --Meiko – Talk / 03:28, 4 January 2013 (PST)
- I'm not going to say my argument again, but that preview you have Morris is not how I think it would be best implemented (which is to say if it is, which I hope it's not). The red squares are too small and not well 'obvious' enough. I know HS01 goes for a slick minimalist thing here, but those are a little too unnoticeable. Lord Nektann
- Yeah, that's getting a little too far away from convenient, but it's good to know the aforementioned switch works. Depends on what Swert wants; he has an affinity for slides, so he might go with Morris' idea after all, but I'd prefer just a basic switch. I know tabs within tabs can work with the basic tabber code developed for wikia, or whatever, but for some reason, that code doesn't work on our wiki, so we have to go a little more custom. Dorek 11:58, 4 January 2013 (PST)
This might be a stretch, but it's possible. What if we used something similar to Morris's idea, but with vertical tabs? That way they would be both larger and more visible. --Meiko – Talk / 06:05, 11 January 2013 (PST)
I'll do some internet snooping and see if I can find the OoF one. If not, going traditional like BS01 might work. I think the image on Savage Planet would make quite a nice banner for that arc if we go that route. Lord Nektann
split up the hero galleries into their respective pages, as per your request on your userpage. ;) -Thoron 01:21, 3 January 2013 (PST)
Okay so in the TV episodes he goes after XT4, but then in Doom Box he's at HF and XT4 is still on the loose. Then in SM 3, Nex isn't there at all for the meeting saying everything's good now. Though he may have captured XT4 later like it says Breez does, he certainly failed at least once so it's fine to put it there. Lord Nektann
- I don't necessarily think it's safe to put that he "failed", just that the job wasn't done, if I understand it right. Obviously the books make the TV episode timeline a little iffy, but is Nex even in SM3? It's just hard to get a bead on what's been done. Dorek 12:23, 5 January 2013 (PST)
- The real timeline messer is Doom Box. It obviously takes place after the TV Episodes, and all the Heroes appear in it. Now it lists Voltix, XT4, Speeda Demon, Core Hunter, and Thornraxx as on the loose, meaning Voltix and SD had to escape and Breez, Nex, and Bulk had to initially fail. Bulk you can write off as after the Omega Recon Reports Core Hunter flees and he may have lost him. Voltix you can say was an oversight, but SD had to escape again as him not being in prison is important to the Doom Box plot. Now in SM 3 it says Breez did get Thornraxx eventually, and of course Core Hunter is like transmuted or something. This leaves Voltix, SD, and XT4. Now Nex isn't in SM 3 at all so you could argue he went after XT4 again, and it did say 'major villains recaptured', which I guess would mean everybody from Corroder to Witch Doctor. It's a little iffy. Lord Nektann
- Yeah, that was the impression that I got from reading some of the previews. I suppose most of the villains were never shown actually being returned to the Factory (and technically SD only had one wrist captured, and he does have four...) but Voltix just makes that annoying. Then again, the books also establish that the HF isn't being used, so in between transports... yeesh. What is Nex doing in the Doom Box? Dorek 13:11, 5 January 2013 (PST)
- I figured that SD and Voltix could have escaped being sent to Asteroid J-54. Also more annoyingly involving those two is they're both captured at the end of Legion of Darkness but both have to escape after the flashback scene in that book. SD has to give Core Hunter the Doom Box map, which he couldn't do before Legion of Darkness as Core Hunter very likely doesn't exist yet, and Voltix has to get captured to start the Breakout. But then SD has to get captured again, making him having escaped three times and Voltix three as well. In Doom Box, Nex and Evo are running Mission Control with Zib for everybody else that's out doing things. He doesn't have lines and is a really minor part. Lord Nektann
I guess it kinda works out; clearly Asteroid J-54 isn't that secure, which is probably why they switched to a HF based prison in the first place, but then the breakout happens, so... yeah. No more space prisons, is the lesson. Dorek 13:44, 5 January 2013 (PST)
- One more thing, with 'all major villains' can be make the assumption that all the villains seen thus far are major and have been re-captured, which would include XT4? This would mean, basically, that everybody's back in jail again. It's said Bulk and Furno have reviewed HF prison security, implying that's back up and running too...so can we go on villain articles and say like Thunder and co got re-captured? Lord Nektann
- I guess he was major because they did send an Alpha 1 member after him. (An interesting theory is that Alpha 1 was purposefully sent after the Legion of Darkness members because of how very dangerous they had been in the past). So can I get a firm confirmation that we should put on every villain's page that they were recaptured. Lord Nektann
- Hard to call them the "main" brains, but I see your point. I figured that the set brains leaned more towards warmer colors, but that might change with the summer. I'll figure out colors, and maybe change the main template image anyway. Dorek 17:47, 5 January 2013 (PST)
Saga Guide Banners
- I'm partial to the border, but what do you think? I've made the SP and RotR ones, so I'll upload those (with border, if that's what we want), but you can do the OoF one if you want, and History of Hero Factory. Dorek 12:02, 6 January 2013 (PST)
- Eh, dunno. As evidenced above with the breakout stuff, there's a lot of iffy timeline nonsense, and unlike BIONICLE I don't think it's super important to put things in that kind of perspective.
We'll see. Feel free to work on one, but dunno if it'll be implemented.
- I've got a prototype running on my sandbox so we'll go with that. And are you talking about that alphabet in the Promo Mag you said you'd implement in 2011 :P Lord Nektann
- Olol, didn't even notice you had uploaded that one. Yeah, I can get that textless, but I don't know if it'll be at a quality worth being the main template pic. Dorek 16:03, 6 January 2013 (PST)
It's specifically stated as we will never know. They said he could be dead, transported into an alt universe, converted into a different form of matter etc. The book goes out of its way to say we have no idea. Lord Nektann
- Yeah, it never worked for Issue 2 because for some reason they set it up as a direct download link; it looks like most of their clubcodes now do that, but Issue 1 wasn't originally in that style, and they still have it in their cache. Dorek 13:59, 12 January 2013 (PST)
"All Major Villains"
Hmm, I just uploaded a new version of File:6202 Rocka Art.jpg, since it has a wider angle and doesn't have the archway obstructing the view. But looking back, the new version is smaller (I was confused on this point, since the Evo art from the same source is for some reason larger than all the others). Should I change this back to the archway version? I also have non-archway, wide-angle versions of Breez and Furno which are also 1000x1000 (smaller than what we have currently), but I'm going to hold off uploading those until I get a response. --|Talk|Contributions 10:01, 26 January 2013 (PST)
- I was actually going to bring up the same thing to you =P. I'm in favor of the non-archway versions, if only for consistency, but that's just me. Dorek
- Wait a bit and see if that K-Mart page gets taken down; if it stays, then it's fine. Dorek 15:28, 2 February 2013 (PST)
- Haha, was it? Silly old me.
- I need basic reconstructions of villain heads, angled to resemble this, with transparent backgrounds. Also Lucas Valor's head, and Merrick Fortis'. And maybe the Drop Ship Pilot's (if it's there)? Also also Thresher's, if you use LDD extended mode maybe? I'm not sure how extensive the color palette is for Extended mode, but it could work out, maybe. Dorek 20:25, 3 February 2013 (PST)
- Well, all of the ones they have, including Fangz.
- What it's officially for is yet to be determined, but I was going to use it to spruce up our lists somehow; I figure since the lists overall are a bit sparse, we can have these helmet icons as some kind of decoration. We have a lot of the official ones from LEGO's parts cache (which I'm slowly having Swert transparent...ify...) but some of them are just either not available, or aren't available the way I like it (Fire Lord's head shows the Drilldozer side, for instance). So, that's the long and short of it. How exactly I'm going to do it remains to be seen, but I have some ideas. Dorek 21:29, 3 February 2013 (PST)
- Toxic Reapa's in particular I don't actually need, but that's the gist of it. Also maybe without the heads, because those won't be in the majority of them, I think. Also maybe angled a bit more. Dorek 13:17, 4 February 2013 (PST)
- Way too early. We won't do anything until the US version airs (or is posted online, or whatever). Dorek 20:08, 6 February 2013 (PST)
I'm pretty sure the use of tables is okay here (there's been a move from using them for display purposes so that they're just used for tabular data, which this arguably is, but if the table's transparent I'm not sure).
Anyway, to make the tables transparent, add "background:transparent;border:0;" to the top part (under the "style" area). Just add "background:transparent;" without the "border:0;" part if you want to keep the border. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow 07:13, 7 February 2013 (PST)
- 1 Derp. Dorek 09:26, 7 February 2013 (PST)
- Looks like Cholie fixed the problem. Actually, if you take out everything except for "background:none;" in the style section, it'll still look the same, so it might be good to do that. -- Morris the Mata Nui Cow 16:47, 8 February 2013 (PST)
I saw you need Swert to make those HRT Icons mentioned on your user page larger. I'm willing to volunteer to do this, since Swert seems a bit preoccupied with several other things. Would it be okay if I made vectors of them, or at least as many as I can? I'll be home all day tomorrow I believe, so I'll have time to do it. :) --Meiko – Talk / · 13:40, 13 February 2013 (PST)
- Bman actually already volunteered to do it, but if he's too occupied, I'll ask you. Thanks! Dorek 14:17, 13 February 2013 (PST)
- So I did a few to see what it would be like. Bman can use mine or he can do them himself. I won't be able to do the last few since I've got Toy Fair coverage, KidsFest coverage, and guest star on a LEGO podcast, and then of course schoolwork. Out of curiosity, how do you think the ones I tried out on my user page turned out? --Meiko – Talk / · 13:25, 17 February 2013 (PST)
Houston, we've got a problem.
I tried making the Furno Bike in LDD, but I ran into a few issues. 1. There's no Antroz Blade in the program. 2. I can't connect the Mahri Blade to the Jet pieces in the Bike's back, it just won't fit in the program. 3. There's none of that Bohrok piece. What do? -- Creepa Demon 22:19, 24 February 2013 (PST)
- The Mahri blade should connect just fine; I managed it all right over two years ago (as you can see, my LXF is in need of an update; it is missing some parts like Toa Metru leg shells that have since been added to LDD). The Bohrok faceplate is also there on LDD, but can't be dual-colored. The one insurmountable obstacle is the Antroz blade, and I can't think of any solution to that but to wait for an LDD update (if tradition is anything to go by, then there should be one sometime in the next couple months) and hope that piece is included.--|Talk|Contributions 07:26, 25 February 2013 (PST)
- S'aight, I even wondered if it had all the pieces anyway. It's not supremely important, just a passing idea. Dorek 11:47, 25 February 2013 (PST)
- Seeing this issue, I am currently working on modifying your bike. Fastcar700 15:06, 25 February 2013 (PST)
- Bleh does this mean I did my model of Furno Bike for nothing? D: -- Creepa Demon 21:02, 25 February 2013 (PST)
- S'aight, I even wondered if it had all the pieces anyway. It's not supremely important, just a passing idea. Dorek 11:47, 25 February 2013 (PST)
Just Letting You Know
- Like, in Scarox's I said that when there's more than one Scarox on-screen they are different from the set one, as in same species but different being. But when only one is on-screen (like when a Scarox tries to attack a pinned down Breez) it's the "real" Scarox. While in Frost Beast's, I said that the Frost Beast is the species' name. I'm really confused. ---- Creepa Demon
- Ah, yeah, I was trying to work out the same thing. Unless Frost Beast's bio will specify otherwise (possible, but unlikely), since Scarox in particular is an individual (we know what he transformed from) it would probably be safer to treat them not as a species name, but just one of many.
- Well, there was (and still is) some confusion over Raw-Jaw, as some sources labeled him as many, and some labeled him as singular; since only one actually appeared in Savage Planet, I went with singular. Here, we have multiples, it's just the name that we're getting confused about. I'll go over the sources and see if there's anything that helps; if not, we may just have to make an executive decision one way or another, and wait until the guidebook (hopefully) clears things up. Dorek 20:11, 8 March 2013 (PST)
Calling Frost Beast an individual makes absolutley no sense at all. It is clearly referring to a swarm of things, these are swarm sets. And even if they were individuals then simply saying when there's only one on screen that that's the 'real' Frost Beast is absurd. There is nothing to tie those multilple Frost Beast together than magical connections in our minds to make editing easier. Other than Dragon Bolt, these Brain sets are clearly and obviously swarms. Looking at HF.com bios it says, 'transformed an ogre into Ogrum' and so forth. However, all it means is they transformed one ogre into one Ogrum. No reason to say they didn't do that multiple times. And the TV episdode can decanonize anything else, because it is the 'highest tier' of canon. Making these creatures individuals does not make any sense as we clearly saw duplicates. I am writing the Frost Beast article based off that to see how that would work in a page. Also that HF.com stuff shows Ogrum, Frost Beast, etc referrs to the transformed forms of the creatures. After Brains removed, an Ogrum becomes an ogre again. Lord Nektann
- Problem is a lot of the set descriptions refer to it as an individual character (and by that logic, wouldn't Frost Beast be Frost Beasts?); "an ogre into Ogrum" makes it sound like Ogrum is the specific monster you see here, otherwise it would be "an Ogrum". You'll almost certainly see the same language for Dragon Bolt: "the brains have transformed a dragon into Dragon Bolt", but obviously there is only one Dragon Bolt. Realistically we should probably just highly reduce the "and then he was seen here AND THEN he was seen here" description and leave it as "Ogrum and other transformed ogres attacked Makuhero city ... and were eventually freed from the brains control, returning to their homelands". It'll be short, but more accurate.
- As I said, things might clear up once we get official summer set descriptions, but don't forget that the creatures are never actually named in the television episodes; the two media act fairly exclusive from one another. Dorek 12:21, 11 March 2013 (PDT)
- Was never actually an asteroid, I'm a dip. The HF promo magazine actually says "asteroid-like planet", which I read as "asteroid". So it's actually a planet, and all these critters are native to it. Dorek 22:12, 9 March 2013 (PST)
I don't like them because it's creating divisions for every piece of media, and using names that probably aren't in-universe names. I'm also against the way we divide the 2010 episodes up. Here's why: inaccurate names. For Bulk Core Crisis was one, but 'Core Crisis' does not apply to people like Stormer and Breez. Von Nebula works for Furno and Stormer, but the other Heroes barely saw him. And with Robot Rampage, no robots rampaged at all. Generally, we don't need 'Into the Darkness', 'Empire of the Skrall', and 'Journey's End' as BS01 headers, so why here? Lord Nektann
- Yes, but these are still separate instances, and we need something that shows how they are divided. With BIONICLE, there's a more connected storyline; even if events are different (like we saw a lot in 2009) it's all part of a grander scheme. Hero Factory has hints of that, but for the most part, each event is often classified as a "mission", and occurs at a new time with changes from the previous one, be it upgrades or team members. Dorek 11:29, 11 March 2013 (PDT)
Having the books, I think we should at least get a better name for Mission: Robot Rampage. There really are no rampaging robots at all. Maybe just use Mission: Tranquis VII? That tells more about what happened than Robot Rampage. Lord Nektann
- Maybe leave it until we get Mirror World. Obviously they aren't above giving silly names to missions, and the books make it pretty clear that these are missions, so I want to see how they'd classify mirror world as a mission (if at all) first. Dorek 09:37, 12 March 2013 (PDT)
Transforming Sequence Beasts
- Because that's how the promo videos label them? Dorek 10:46, 14 March 2013 (PDT)
Fire Sword/Fire Shield Images
Would cropping and rotating images from here be preferable to what we have now? It's a photo rather than CGI, but it's pretty high-quality regardless. Just throwing that out there if you were having trouble finding alternative images.--|Talk|Contributions 12:58, 24 March 2013 (PDT)
- Also, I'd really rather if we could get an image of the Plasma Sword that includes the hilt. And yes, the hex energy shield is on LDD, but it might be best to fiddle with the graphics settings to get the best possible image (or if anyone has LDD2PovRay that'd be ideal).--|Talk|Contributions 13:01, 24 March 2013 (PDT)
- Ah, I was wondering where I could get that image. Cool.
- I suppose, I had just happened to get Fire Sword without the hilt, so I didn't really see the need to do the Plasma Sword too, but it's doable.